What do you like about Religion?
  • Ferdinand
    Posts: 801Citizen
    As an atheist forum, we've covered extensively the perceived downsides to religion. So I ask: what do you like about religion? You can choose a particular religion or something about religion as a whole. In the name of positivity, give it a try.

    I like music, including religious music. I think the organ/mass voice/acoustics of church music is haunting and beautiful. I don't like Christian rock bands, but I like folksy music, and since religion is old and culturally diverse, a lot of religious music is pretty good.

    I like the architectural appeal of many religious buildings. I appreciate that the significance of religion to people promotes making nice buildings that last a long time.

    I also like the ceremonial aspects of religion. Perhaps not as far as philosophy; I'm not conservative. But from an aesthetic perspective, it's cool. It's really steeped in symbolism and tradition, and it's just interesting to see/hear. There's something charming about people doing the same seemingly meaningless tasks for hundreds of years on end almost exactly the same. It's like humanity's OCD rituals.

    I like the cultures of religion. Maybe not the actual cultures themselves, and we all know how detrimental religion can be when it comes into a culture and says "every thing we do is significant and important exactly the way it is" so that it becomes difficult to let society evolve for the better. But it is interesting to see how religion mixes with culture. Like the difference between Egyptian-Muslim culture and Iranian-Muslim culture, and then how perhaps within cultures, how religion relates to the non-religious. It's interesting.

    Come on, then; I want to hear your interpretation of religion from a different light.
  • Inferno
    Posts: 6,778Citizen
    I pretty much agree with PatCondell.

    However:

    Posted By: FerdinandI like music, including religious music.


    As do I. But I also have to agree with Dawkins when he says that science and nature can be and should be a far better inspiration for music.

    Posted By: FerdinandI like the architectural appeal of many religious buildings.


    Agreed, but once again there could be better inspirations.

    Oh and I like religions that allow polygamy. ;)
  • demented cookies
    Posts: 3,619Citizen
    I like how church creates a community, and it helps you get to know people (although, like with many things, there are other ways to create a community). As was said before, the music and architecture are nice.

    One thing that not many other things can parallel is stories and myths that last thousands of years.
    The fascinating thing, to me, about things like Greek myths, and from other cultures as well, is the fact that they have lasted for so long and that people believed the gods were real. It's interesting, fascinating stuff, and, really, only religion can give you ancient myths that used to be taken as fact. Give Christianity and Islam and Judaism another thousand years or so, and it will be general knowledge that they are myths.
  • Inferno
    Posts: 6,778Citizen
    Posted By: demented cookiesGive Christianity and Islam and Judaism another thousand years or so, and it will be general knowledge that they are myths.


    I do not have a thousand years. Call me a selfish bastard but I want this nonsense gone and I want it gone now.
  • normlnorml
    Posts: 1,663Citizen
    Posted By: demented cookiesI like how church creates a community, and it helps you get to know people (although, like with many things, there are other ways to create a community). As was said before, the music and architecture are nice.

    One thing that not many other things can parallel is stories and myths that last thousands of years.
    The fascinating thing, to me, about things like Greek myths, and from other cultures as well, is the fact that they have lasted for so long and that people believed the gods were real. It's interesting, fascinating stuff, and, really, only religion can give you ancient myths that used to be taken as fact. Give Christianity and Islam and Judaism another thousand years or so, and it will be general knowledge that they are myths."I don't intend to achieve immortality through my work. I intend to achieve it through not dying." -Woody Allen

    I LOVE the sense of community a church creates, as well as the opportunities for social advancement. I made friends that I'll keep for a lifetime, and it was great to be a loved, respected member of a community that was important to me. I worked as a sales rep for a high-end cutlery manufacturer a few summers ago and got many of my customers directly from my church congregation. I still visit my old church from time to time, and will definitely be making an appearance this Christmas.
    One thing is for certain: The more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Inferno
    Posts: 6,778Citizen
    Posted By: norml
    Posted By: demented cookiesShortened for space issues."I don't intend to achieve immortality through my work. I intend to achieve it through not dying." -Woody Allen

    Shortened for space issues.memento mori


    Exchange "church" with "swinger club" and I could agree. Seriously, why choose a church and not... a fitness gym? Anything else?
  • normlnorml
    Posts: 1,663Citizen
    Exchange "church" with "swinger club" and I could agree. Seriously, why choose a church and not... a fitness gym? Anything else?

    Harder to find, costs money, less socially acceptable, less diverse, etc.
    One thing is for certain: The more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • TheGoldenRAM
    Posts: 89Serf
    That's why people should be encouraged to gather and discuss the big questions, while not comparing those ideas to, and seeing if they fit with, an ancient, dogmatic, superstitious text.

    So I guess if I had to choose some good things about religion it would be the art and music it produces. But I must say I totally agree with the above statement that science and nature make much better topics to base your art and music on. Imagine what the Sistine Chapel would look like if Michelangelo had had astronomy or nature as his inspiration. (I've even heard arguments that he may not have truly believed, but in that time, you had to believe or be persecuted to death in some cases.) The sense of community you gain from church would be good, but it's the sheep-like brainwashing that occurs during these gatherings that make them much more repressive than progressive.
  • Inferno
    Posts: 6,778Citizen
    Posted By: norml
    Exchange "church" with "swinger club" and I could agree. Seriously, why choose a church and not... a fitness gym? Anything else?

    Harder to find, costs money, less socially acceptable, less diverse, etc.memento mori


    Well like I said, it doesn't have to be a swinger club. It can be a gym, a local Atheists club, whatever.
  • normlnorml
    Posts: 1,663Citizen
    Posted By: Inferno
    Posted By: norml
    Exchange "church" with "swinger club" and I could agree. Seriously, why choose a church and not... a fitness gym? Anything else?

    Harder to find, costs money, less socially acceptable, less diverse, etc.memento mori


    Well like I said, it doesn't have to be a swinger club. It can be a gym, a local Atheists club, whatever.The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be. -Carl Sagan

    It's hard to find another organization where people attend the weekly meetings with their families regularly. As far as communities go, I don't think there's anything quite like a church congregation. Other organizations may be enjoyable, but personally I don't think they'd be as fulfilling. I think the fact that church is both a family and community ritual is what makes it so special.
    One thing is for certain: The more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson
  • Goldenkobold
    Posts: 930Serf
    I like religions history in the US of providing a second pulpit for the masses,
    from the revolution to the civil rights movement...the church has always been able to unite and carry a separate message that caused fundamental changes...and sometimes they were for the good

    ...of course sometimes they are not for the good...such as the 80's conservative/christian melding..and of course many churches spread intolerance as much as social change, but I think Reverend King would have been far less effective as Journalist King or Politician King...in that day and age
  • Ferdinand
    Posts: 801Citizen
    Posted By: Infernothat science and nature can be and should be a far better inspiration for music.


    Oh man, I disagree. Art is at its core a very emotional thing, and emotion and religion are more closely intertwined than science and emotion. Science is about logic and order, and art is not. I'm not saying that science can't inspire emotion, but not in the way religion can. If nature was as important to people in this way, it would become a religion, like pantheism.
  • AkutaAkuta
    Posts: 4,931Citizen
    Posted By: FerdinandScience is about logic and order, and art is not.

    That's a very concrete statement... Fractals? Logic and order, yet artistic. Snowflakes? Logic and order, yet artistic. Although I'm guessing by the way you worded the rest of the post that you were referring to the people behind the actions that create "science" or "art"?

    Posted By: FerdinandI'm not saying that science can't inspire emotion, but not in the way religion can.

    Science inspires emotion. Religion exploits it. There's the difference.
    "Everybody can get angry, that's easy. But getting angry at the right person, with the right intensity, at the right time, for the right reason and in the right way, that's hard." - Aristotle
  • Goldenkobold
    Posts: 930Serf
    I don't know if you can call snowflakes artistic in the true sense of the word...

    you get into the debate over whether nature can ever create true art or if it requires a cognitive hand...anything else is just enjoyable scenery.
    I think there's a story in the pig that wants to be eaten about that..

    OH!
  • Inferno
    Posts: 6,778Citizen
    Posted By: Ferdinand
    Oh man, I disagree.


    Oh girl, I disagree with you. ;)

    Posted By: FerdinandArt is at its core a very emotional thing, and emotion and religion are more closely intertwined than science and emotion.


    I disagree. That may be the case for many people and it may be the case for you, but certainly not for all. I think that the main problem with people NOT combining science and emotion is because 1) They don't know enough about science and 2) They go at it in a sterile way.
    Again, I can only think of Dawkins who said something like "Imagine what a symphony of the galaxies might have sounded like from Beethoven, etc. etc." and I think that he's spot on.
    Yes, religion inspires people (if at all, as Akuta has mentioned) but it's the petty sort of inspiring that any magician on a stage can do. Think of what a person might conceive if (s)he were to gaze through a telescope and watch the stars. What poetry, music and other art one would be inspired to do by this I can't even fathom.

    Posted By: FerdinandScience is about logic and order, and art is not.


    I agree with what Akuta said and I will take it two steps further:
    image
    and
    Tool - Lateralus

    Posted By: FerdinandI'm not saying that science can't inspire emotion, but not in the way religion can.


    And I'm saying the opposite. I just don't think that we've tapped the potential yet. Again, Dawkins said it best, though I don't have the exact quote:
    "Any religion that would praise the beauty of the cosmos as it actually is (contrary to the bronze aged myths -Edit mine) might tap an unprecedented reservoir of inspirational potential."

    Posted By: FerdinandIf nature was as important to people in this way, it would become a religion, like pantheism.


    You're equating science to nature, but that's OK. I think that in total, (attention: Empty claim!) more people are inspired by nature than they are by religion.
  • demented cookies
    Posts: 3,619Citizen
    Posted By: InfernoPosted By: norml
    Posted By: demented cookiesShortened for space issues."I don't intend to achieve immortality through my work. I intend to achieve it through not dying." -Woody Allen

    Shortened for space issues.

    Why does it always say I said that! I said nothing of the sort! D:
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